Obama-Romney's Second Debate: Who Won?
President Barack Obama and Gov. Mitt Romney squared off in the second presidential debate on Tuesday, Oct. 16. Here's how Massachusetts Republicans and Democrats reacted.
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Editor's note: This article was corrected to refer to the consulate in Libya on Wednesday, Oct. 17 at 9:07 a.m.
The attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya that led to the death of four Americans became the flashpoint in Tuesday night's second presidential debate between President Barack Obama and Gov. Mitt Romney: that's the major finding of the Red and Blue Commonwealth flash polls sent out to local politicos immediately after the debate ended on Thursday night.
Obama and Romney faced off on Oct. 16 at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York in a town hall format, with CNN's Candy Crowley moderating a debate that covered both domestic and foreign policy.
Of the 17 local influential Democrats who took the poll after the debate ended, 13 of them (76.5 percent) voted that Obama won by a large margin and four (23.5 percent) voted that the president won by a slim margin.
Local influential Republicans were more varied in their assessment of Romney's performance. Of 25 who took the poll, eight (32 percent) voted that Romney won by a wide margin, 12 (48 percent) voted Romney won by a slim margin; three (12 percent) voted neutral and two (8 percent) voted Obama won by a slim margin.
The two sides agreed on one thing: Most of the Republicans voted that Obama would be declared the consensus "winner" by the national media, as did most of the Democrats who took the poll.
Of the Republicans, 15 voted Obama would be declared the winner by a slim margin and 1 voted by a wide margin. Five voted neutral and four voted Romney would be declared the winner by a slim margin.
Nine Democrats voted Obama would be declared the winner by a wide margin, seven voted by a slim margin and one voted neutral.
Libya Attack Characterization Polarizes Republicans, Democrats
Where the two sides disagreed was their assessment of an exchange between Obama, Romney and Crowley regarding the president's response to the attack in Libya on U.S. embassy employees, which left four Americans dead, including Ambassador Chris Stevens and Winchester native Glen Doherty.
During the debate, after Obama said that the day after the attack he had called it an act of terror during his remarks in the White House Rose Garden, Romney asked him to reiterate that statement.
"It was not a spontaneous demonstration, is that what you're saying?" Romney said. "I want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror."
Obama replied, "Get the transcript," and Crowley said to Romney, "He did in fact, sir."
The passage in question from Obama's remarks on Sept. 12:
Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.
As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
The following Sunday, Sept. 16, U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice went on Sunday morning talk shows and characterized the attack as a "spontaneous reaction," a remark weeks laterdisowned by the State Department.
A number of local Republicans pointed to the exchange as a moment that would stand out in the minds of conservatives in Massachusetts, which one Republican called "Obama lying on Libya." Others cited Crowley's statement "He did in fact, sir," with one Republican writing, "The moderator incorrectly citing the Rose Garden transcript to squelch Romney's Libya argument" and another writing "when Candy Crowley lied and said Obama called Benghazi an act of terror."
Conversely, Democrats also pointed to the exchange as a moment that would stand out in the minds of liberals and progressives in Massachusetts, with one Democrat writing "Obama offended by Romney's talk about Libya" and another writing "the president humbling Romney on Libya."
Obama's Record vs. Romney's Record
As for other moments that stood out, the answers ran the gamut for both Democrats and Republicans, but several focused on each candidate's record.
Democrats pointed to Romney's record as governor of Massachusetts, with one writing that Romney was "taking false credit for education success" in Massachusetts and another highlighting Obama saying that Romney stood in front of the coal-burning Salem Harbor Power Station and saying that the plant kills people.
Other Democrats wrote about Romney's rheotric on the campaign trail and during the debate, with one writing that the governor was "backtracking his tax plan" and another pointed to Obama bringing up Romney's comments about the "47 percent."
Republicans pointed to Obama's record, from the Keystone Pipeline project to the deficit and unemployment. One Republican wrote that "facts are facts when it comes to 23 million unemployed, doubling of gas prices, deficits of $16 trillion, incomes dropped," while another pointed to Romney saying that Obama promised to cut the deficit in half and "he did nothing and it increased two-fold."
Other Republicans wrote that Romney "hammering home all of Obama's failtures" put the president on the defensive.
"President Obama can not defend his record so attacks and lies without compunction, when challenged he becomes angry and attacks Governor Romney," one Republican wrote.
Both Republicans and Democrats were fairly confident that their candidate's debate performance would increase the number of votes he gets in Massachusetts.
Five Republicans voted they strongly agreed Romney's performance would increase his Bay State vote total, 11 somewhat agreed, five were neutral, three somewhat disagree and one strongly disagreed.
Eight Democrats voted they strongly agreed Obama's performance would increase his Massachusetts vote total, eight somewhat agreed and one was neutral.
And at least one poll taker, a Democrat, was left wanting more from both Obama and Romney.
"I would like to see candidates answer the questions that are asked," they wrote.
Who do you think won the debate? Tell us in the comments below.
Red and Blue Commonwealth Surveys
Our surveys are not a scientific, random sample of any larger population, but rather an effort to listen to a group of influential local Republican activists, party leaders, candidates and elected officials in Massachusetts. All of these individuals have agreed to participate in Massachusetts' Patch's surveys, although not all responded to this story's questions.
Patch will be conducting Red Commonwealth and Blue Commonwealth surveys throughout the 2012 election season in hopes of determining the true sentiment of conservatives and liberals on the ground in Massachusetts. If you are an activist, party leader or elected official and would like to take part in periodic surveys that last just a few minutes, please contact Associate Regional Editor Daniel DeMaina at danield@patch.com.
Darren Major
7:19 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
The whiny bully - Mitt lost handily
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251149839
The President did a great job contrasting/debunking the stream of lies from R-Money
Paul Lasiewski
7:30 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Who does Governor Patrick think won the debate and why? One term Governor Romney has made a lot of claims about what he did "In my state".
Janet Sroczynski
8:52 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Mitt Romney won the debate last night.
I most especially enjoyed Mitt Romney's comments to Obama regarding his pension and that he (Barach Obama) has his pension so invested in companies from China. Great job Mitt Romney of pointing that out!
Wendy Wagner
9:23 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Which of Romney's lies was your favorite last night? I'm kind of partial to the one where he said he wouldn't change abortion laws or policies on contraception if elected. If you're a right-winger, what's the point of voting for him, then?
Paul Lasiewski
12:55 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
No one really knows where their pension money is invested. That is not what Obama was talking about. Romney twisted the conversation to get off the subject of his personal investments, i.e. see his tax returns 2008, 2009. Great job Mitt Romney!
Stoughton Fan
5:03 am on Friday, October 19, 2012
So Paul,
Obama and his ilk have been HAMMERING Romeny about his offshore investments and "Caymen" accounts for months on end. Romney's investments are managed by a blind trust as is the presidents. Romney was only pointing out the utter hypocrocy that is Barak Obama. BTW, I know exacly where my retirement funds are invested.
Wendy Wagner
9:30 am on Friday, October 19, 2012
"Romney's investments are managed by a blind trust as is the presidents. "
This is false. The pension plan of the state of Illinois is actually not a blind trust. Romney's "blind trust" is actually run by his lawyer. Also, Romney himself knows that blind trusts are not really blind. See him say so here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9DVKWhPibw
Stoughton Fan
2:24 am on Thursday, October 25, 2012
False?
First of all, the IIlinois pension is Obama's. Second, Romney's Blind trust is managed by a Financial Advisor.
Ken Gross, an ethics lawyer with the law firm Skadden Arps in Washington, D.C., has helped presidential candidates set up blind trusts. He says blind trusts are complicated, expensive and generally a pain."Most people who have any kind of wealth are interested in how it's managed," Gross says. "And blind trusts, because they are blind, you don't know what's going on with your money."
But a blind trust does have one crucial advantage for a politician: It becomes an easy answer to any conflict-of-interest question. Mitt Romney used it in the Republican primary debates earlier this year."My investments are not made by me," he said at the time. "My investments for the last 10 years have been in a blind trust, managed by a trustee
Of course, there's an easy response from a less wealthy opponent. In fact, there's a video going around of Mitt Romney from 1994, when he was challenging another very rich candidate with a blind trust: Ted Kennedy."The blind trust is an age-old ruse, if you will," Romney said. "Which is to say, you can always tell a blind trust what it can and cannot do."So which one is it? Blind or not blind? Well, all trusts are not created equal.Federal election rules require fairly tight ones. State rules, not so much. Romney's is a Federal trust, Ted Kennedy's was a state trust .
Janet Sroczynski
9:28 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Obama's pension, invested in companies from China.
Watch the video clip or google a search for it, where Mitt Romney questions Obama on his pension. Start with the video clip available online from CBSNews.com:
http://www.CBSNews.com/video/watch/?id=50133275n&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CBSNewsGameCore+(GameCore%3A+CBSNews.com)
Interesting how Obama surrounds himself with people who are focused on bankruptcy.
http://www.USDebtClock.org/
U.S. Debt Clock.org in real time is over $16+ Trillion; currently: $16,182,374,117,253. By the time you finish reading this, the figure will be significantly higher. Nearly $6 Trillion of that $16+ Trillion was incurred over the past 4 Obama years in office.
Romney/Ryan 2012.
Sean Bielat.
Scott Brown.
Beth Norquist
9:29 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Obama most definitely won! He spoke about his many achievements in contrast to Romney’s sketchy and often disproven plans. And, Romney was way too aggressive, rude and broke the debate rules by asking questions directly of the President. Romney also demonstrated his interest in making political gains over the Libya incident, something he’s been doing since that incident was first learned of, and he avoided answering the “equal pay for equal work by women” question because he opposes equal pay. Romney wants to take women back to the 1960s, based on his plan to end Planned Parenthood and other backward aims.
Most media outlets and polls agree, Obama won.
CNN Poll: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/16/breaking-cnn-poll-obama-edges-romney-in-debate/
CBS Poll: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57533850/poll-obama-edges-romney-in-second-debate/
ABC News: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-wins-presidential-debate-populist-intent-17496358
LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-presidential-debate-obama-wins-20121016,0,6482056.story
Forbes.com: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnzogby/2012/10/16/obama-wins-testy-second-debate/
Newsday: http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/tv-zone-1.811968/barack-obama-tv-presence-outshines-mitt-romney-in-debate-1.4124452
R. Hood
6:11 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
You sound like somebody who's strapped in at the Liberal trough. Could you be SPECIFIC and tell us what your Savior has done in his first term and what he says he is going to do if, God help us, he gets a next one. If you can't be specific please do not waste the space.
todd
2:31 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
I agree With R Hood. What are you talking about. Could One of the "Obamabots" or" Warrenistas" please tell me "what a fair shot is?" please.... Like a typical Progressive, Say a lot. But say nothing.........
Richard W. Lunt
10:05 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
All those organizations are liberal socialist media hacks for the Obama administration.
Richard W. Lunt
10:08 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Planned parenthood and abortion should end. Abortion is killing the life of a child who will never grow to become a person who could make a positive difference in the world.
Adam Edward
3:13 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
I'm not saying abortion is okay but I think the choice is the womans to make. If only Hitler's mother believed in abortion.
Gretchen Robinson
8:15 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Prochoice and proud! If you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one. Otherwise keep your laws off my body. Nothing more infuriating and crazy than priests, male lawmakers (87 male senators, 13 women), judges (6 Roman Catholic Supreme Court Justices out of the 9!!!) making laws that will never affect them.
Women have a right to get an abortion. Abortion is a legal procedure.
If abortion is ever re-criminalized, the woman of this nation will rise up and throw all you rightwing cranks into the sea. Mind your own business. Teach your sons and young men to be respectful of women. Take responsibility for teaching children age appropriate sex education. But your type wants to keep 'em ignorant. If you were so anti-abortion, your type would be promoting birth control on every corner.
Darren Major
11:07 am on Friday, October 19, 2012
Women should control their own bodies not stupid white men or people who claim to be Christians but are really more Pharisees in their behavior
todd
2:38 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
If planned parenthood is so great. Why do the Feds have to provide funding?? At least half the country doesn't believe in killing babies. If it is so great, why not make it a not for profit and fund through the generosity of the supporters???????
R. Hood
5:32 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
Gretchen: Keep your rights. Let's terminate when the baby is the wrong sex, or your not going out with the father. or it's going to be inconvenient. etc.... You've got a great set of morals to pass on. See you in church at Easter & Christmas....
Kirby
3:56 am on Saturday, October 20, 2012
@Todd...Amen!
If a woman wants to keep her baby but cannot afford to, there are plenty of private organizations and people who will take care of every expense through her pregnancy and birth of her child because they believe the child should have a right to live.
If a woman does not want to keep her baby and cannot afford an abortion, where are the private organizations and people to pay for her abortion because they believe the woman should have a right to choose?
Emcee of Seekonk
10:52 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
The debate was a draw. A co-host on the Today show said Candy Crowley should be given the honor of MVP. Indeed she should since she facilitated three extra minutes for BO and helped him wherever she could. No harm done, I'm sure Romney will continue to gain in the polls... people's minds are pretty much made up, and the straglers won't make an awful lot of difference.
Richard W. Lunt
11:30 am on Friday, October 19, 2012
Gretchen,
You support abortion and you are a member of the clergy? What about the ten commandments, thou shall not kill, and yet you support the idea of killing a living child who is in the mother's womb. Sounds like you're a hypocrite.
Katydid
11:23 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
The president showed more emotion in chastising the governor on his remarks on Libya than he did in the Rose Garden shortly after the terrorist attack. The only time he shows any empathy or emotion is when it is beneficial to him politically. The show of emotion was designed to blunt the comments by Romney and make it appear that the governor was in fact the person with no conscience...people are not that shallow, Mr. President.
Jeff Sitter
5:54 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
I think the debate was a draw. The only losers last night were the American people. Obama is running from his record of the past four years. The few things he claimed to achieve were superficial. Ask yourself the question, "did it truly help the economy"? You hear about bailing out failing businesses, Many CEO's got rich off the bail outs. You hear about clean energy investment, How much money went to businesses that bailed with the money? I could go on but it is like beating your head against the wall. Like politicians its just another way to dance around what is really going on. Romney although far from perfect is at least a new direction for our country. We can not stay on the path we are on or we will see our way of life crumble. Massachusetts was my state too when he was governor and there are many things I could comment on that I didn't care for but the fact of the matter still remains Obama had four years to bring the change he promised and I don't see it and more importantly I don't feel it where it counts, my wallet. God help us and God please bless the United States of America.
Sean McDermott
6:26 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Romney won. Just because Obama was more aggressive than in the first debate doesn't equate to a win. Obamas not only running against Romney he's also running against his pathethic record of zero accomplishments. Almost 4 years no budget plan, 7.8 % unemployment still and maybe even higher, added 6 trillion and counting to the debt. Foreign policy is nonexistent and he lied last night in debate 2 about Libya as he has been all along and it will come around to bite him in the backside in Monday nights final debate on foreign policy. Check out the right polls and the swing states polls. He can start packing now unless something goes wrong big for Romney.
Romney, Ryan, Brown.
Tim L
6:42 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Obama by a nose. Romney loses on drilling and failure to give detail on economic plan. Obama needs to confess to his mishandling issue of Lybian consulate. Crowley needs to stop debating on the president's side.
Jeff Sitter
6:55 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Obama can't win on his record. Romney loses on drilling? I have been to the arctic wildlife refuge and anyone who ways we can't drill there has just not been there. It's portrayed by critics a one of the most beautiful places on earth. Obviously they have never been there either. It is an oil rich sponge with no trees only low growing tundra and mosquito's. We are loaded with oil in this country and to not go after it is criminal. Why depend on countries that hate us for oil. Kind of like borrowing money from China to loan money back to China as aid. We can't afford four more years of that. Romney was up against a stacked deck with Crowley and when did he have an opportunity to explain his economic plan. Two minutes in not enough time to begin to explain how to bring us back from the brink. Still no winner but until Obama gives me something to truly hold on to it is Romney in front in my opinion.
Gretchen Robinson
8:22 pm on Thursday, October 18, 2012
Jeff. You lie.
The Arctic wildlife refuge is one of the wildlife area left on the planet. Must we ruin every single inch of the planet so you can drive your badass pickup? I almost got into an accident today on North Main St. because some lady insisted on on her right to pull out of her driveway and make me jack on my brakes. Any prudent, law abiding driver would have waited, but now. It's 'me first and the hell with you' with you folks.
Her big black pickup had no 'pickup' and probably gets 8 miles a gallon. Let her -- and you--learn that there are costs to the environment for all our greed for oil. Let her observed the laws of the road.
Reminds me of Scott Brown with his dumb pickup. He'll be driven around in a Rolls Royce soon with all the PAC money he's getting. All the payoffs he'll get for selling out to Corporations.
Jonathan Friedman
11:18 am on Friday, October 19, 2012
Writing "stupid white men," noting there are 6 Catholic Supreme Court justices as if this is a bad thing ... I think we can have more advanced conversations in 2012. Also, Gretchen, some of those Catholic justices are more likely to be in favor of abortion rights than not, so I'm not sure what the point of your statement was. Please don't respond to my post, everybody just move on in a more mature manner.
Jerry Chase
5:44 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
I'll try to quote Mother Teresa here: "It is a poverty that a child must die so that you can live as you want." Sure, she's a nun; but that didn't prevent agnostic Harvard from extending an invitation for her to speak there. And, I think that Harvard did the same for the late Yassir Arafat.
Gretchen Robinson
10:56 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
Yet, Mother Teresa spent decades doubting God's existence even as she kept up her work. Now it comes out that her clinics do not provide pain remediation or modern medicine to anything like modern standards. Enjoy your pain and agony--suffering is good for your soul.
Sorry, that's cruelty. Maybe God created the scientists and doctors that made the pain meds. As for 'agnostic' Harvard, read Rev. Peter Gomes, The Good Book and others. He was head of the Church that sits in the center of Harvard Yard. Jerry I went to a spiritual issues program at Harvard Divinity for years (Theological Opportunities Program). It was for women. Every series of program was theologically based and explored Religious Faith. Most modern universities are neither secular or non-secular. Students can access religious programs or not. That to me is religious freedom.
todd
5:59 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
For Gretchen, I hope there is a God. will he be as kind to you?
Gretchen Robinson
10:58 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
I think the question we all need to ask is "did I live well?" "Did I love my neighbor?" Did I love well?" "Have I been kind?"
In 6 years working as a hospice chaplain, patients often asked and found answers to those questions....and eventually peace within themselves.
R. Hood
6:13 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
Since abortion is legal, how is it that someone who kills pregnant woman and her child can be convicted of double murder? Pick one, either you believe in killing the unborn or you don't. There are plenty of methods of birth control to prevent pregnancy. People should be able to control them selves long enough to use one of those methods or perhaps try abstinence. I think a little delayed gratification might benefit everyone..
DAN DEVINE
6:46 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
No one likes being LIED to Mr. President. - Obamas' generic statement in the Rose Garden about terror was just that, generic, NOT about the attack on the American embassy in Libia (Bengahzi) and he knows it! His debate handlers informed him of this previous terror statement in the Rose Garden, which is why he immediately challenged Romney saying " GET THE TRANSCRIPT " - We're not all stupid Mr. President! He'll do ANYTHING to stay in the White House even lying and attempting to decieve the American public. Hasn't he already done enough damage?
R. Hood
7:35 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
Why would David Letterman re-air his 9/18 show last night with Obama reiterating that an angry mob was responsible for the attack in Libya?
Every thought that this despicable man has is self-serving, even if it cost four innocent Americans their lives. "Let freedom ring, Let the white doves sing, Let the whole world know that Nov 6th will be a day of reckoning!" On that day Obama and his rumswabs can move in to his newly purchased 40mil mansion in Hawaii. I'll guess he'll have the last laugh, not bad for a guy who's never worked a day in his life!
Gretchen Robinson
10:47 pm on Friday, October 19, 2012
OMG, there it is in black and white, there it is on tape and you will-fully blind zealots won't accept what you can see and hear. You truly are blind and deaf.
Romnesia.....it's infectious. Luckily Obamacare will cover this condition.
D. B. Cooper
12:35 am on Saturday, October 20, 2012
Let it be told that on 10/19/12 in the year of our Lord, MOONBAT, ZEALOT, CLOSED MINDED, ECONOMIC ILLITERATE, ABORTION QUEEN, A. H. DEMOCRAT, screeching Frau Grecthen called someone else a zealot. I'm sure next she will take the daily KOS way out and call for his assassination. Can't make this stuff up.
Gretchen Robinson
12:41 am on Saturday, October 20, 2012
I can always tell when I'm winning an argument because DB goes bizarre with his name calling.
Got anything intelligent to say tonight?
D. B. Cooper
1:52 am on Saturday, October 20, 2012
R 52% - O 45% how's that?
TRW
7:10 am on Saturday, October 20, 2012
You guys come onto this board as if you'll change someone's mind. You're all deluded and wasting your time. Go do something productive.